For me, yes, I'd call Venom Black Metal. So it depends on where you want to draw a line.If Varg Vikernes told me the sky was blue, I'd stick my head out the door and confirm that for myself. The first album musically is very close to Venom, with the thrash beats and the heavy metal/rock swagger, but added the truly dark and evil tone we associate with black metal. Are Kreator and Slayer also Death Metal because they influenced Death Metal? Punk REALLY started with the fully-formed albums of GREEN DAY, RANCID, OFFSPRING and NOFX of the early-mid 90s".I first heard (read) the term black metal being thrown around in zines in 1984 in reference to Venom, Slayer, Mercyful Fate and I even remember one zine using it to describe Ozzy Osbourne that year.
If you take the first album in isolation you could argue it's "not really metal" because it is missing so many important pieces of what makes metal. I think they deserve the credit for black metal because it wasn't a scene before then.
I personally don't hear any black metal in Mercyful Fate, it's solidly heavy metal in the vocals, the riffs and drums. These are full on black metal records!The Return...... or In The Sign Of Evil, whichever came first.Venom was the sprout that first first showed black metal.
I'm not your mom!
"The Return" is the first fully formed black metal album.
count as real Black Metal simply because they were big influences on the genre is incredibly weak.
The Return, Under the Sign... and Blood Fire Death are 100% black metal, not speed metal.I would also say Bathory, and so would alot of the norwegian bands.
But the guys in Emperor has told that they listened to them, and they covered a song in the early days, and Fenriz has said it was mandatory listens when they gathered. So it depends on where you want to draw a line.If Varg Vikernes told me the sky was blue, I'd stick my head out the door and confirm that for myself. count as real Black Metal simply because they were big influences on the genre is incredibly weak. Black Metal is the second album by English heavy metal band Venom.It was released in November 1982, during the great flourishing of metal music in the UK that was the new wave of British heavy metal, and is considered a major influence on the thrash metal, death metal and black metal scenes that emerged in the 1980s and early 1990s.
Words like "influence", "proto-", "inspiration" and such are often used, and those who argue for the 2nd wave to be the real "truly" black metal bands, often seem to mean it in a way that refers to pureness. And there is no way you can say that Bathory was just thrash with dark undertones.
If anything, Cronos should've said "Er... no... what you're playing isn't Black Metal. Are Diamond Head and Motorhead thrash because they influenced Thrash? It's not the first time I read this opinion on Celtic Frost, Bathory and Venom being to have too much thrash metal in their sound to be black metal, and I guess I can understand where people who are making these kinds of statements are coming from, even though I disagree.Venom - is black metal as they came up with this "genre" to describe their music (a heavy/faster type of hardrock/metal, but not really extreme yet imo)I understand the importance of these so called first wave bands but to me personally they are as much black metal as Slayer or Testament. "The Return" is the first fully formed black metal album. They highly influenced the Norwegians, gave some hints to them and eventually the likes of Mayhem, Thorns, Burzum, Darkthrone, etc presented the renewed sound, which made black metal a separate genre.Black metal was forged by the Norwegians. Bathory I did not hear of until 1985 as well as my peers. Not true Black Metal in the sense of the sound. Aesthetics and clothing and coining of words means absolutely nothing--all that matters is the sound.
When Norwegian Black Metal came about, NO ONE said "ohhh, this is a new genre! Butt if you take the first six together, say, then you can see all the pieces there ready to be put together. A decade later the Norwegian's took that term and created a whole new music genre with it. There were a lot of things percolating simultaneously in the 80s, and that era produced in Venom, Sodom, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost and Bathory (among others) the basic raw material of what we call "black metal," but the Scandinavian (and I'd include Beherit and Impaled Nazarene here) and Greek scenes of the early 1990s should probably be credited with developing this raw material into a coherent subgenre.Yeah nothing proto about Under the Sign of the Black Mark. If anyone is a sockpuppet owner here, it's droneriot, his behaviour is so erratic and ridiculous …
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